Friday, January 25, 2013
Is the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection in Decline?
For the past decade, the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection has consistently distinguished itself as the best of American whiskey. Few other whiskeys have been able to even come close to the quality of the quintet of George T. Stagg, William Larue Weller, Eagle Rare 17, Thomas H. Handy rye and Sazerac 18 year old rye. Even while the whiskey have become hard to find, the price has remained fairly consistent, making them a great value...if you can find them.
Over the last two years, however, the quality of these whiskeys appears to have declined. They are still great, but they have come down to earth from their previously astronomical levels. In December, I wrote about my disappointment with the 2012 George T. Stagg, but the 2011 was also a bit off balance, especially when compared to the 2010 and other earlier versions, which were so bold yet also balanced and complex.
I recently sampled the 2012 Weller and found a similar phenomenon. Both the 2012 and 2011 lacked the complexity of earlier versions, especially the excellent 2009 edition. There were more off notes, sour and bitter, than in previous versions. (See LA Whiskey Society Reviews of George T. Stagg and William Larue Weller through the years).
I haven't been as consistent in trying the other BTAC whiskeys, but I've noticed a similar drop in quality in all of those I've tried over the last two years.
I want to reiterate that these are still great whiskeys, but before 2010, they were absolutely phenomenal. Time will tell if this is a steady decline or merely a dip in quality.
Have you noticed a difference in your BTAC?
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31 comments:
I immensely disliked the 2011 WLW. Enjoyed the 2011 Handy. ER17 from the last few years have been OK but not worth the money.
WLW and GTS have definitely declined in quality the last few years. No longer worth the effort to find or at the price being charged, IMO. Have a bottle of the latest Sazerac 18 but have yet to open to see how it compares. Would be curious to hear what others say.
I actually like the 2012 Weller much more than the 2011. Like Anonymous, I really didn't like the 2011. The only other '12 BTAC I've had is Sazerac 18yo, and it may be a little less intense than last year's. I do think that Stagg declined in complexity from '10 - '11, and I prefer the '10 Handy to the '11 as well. I like the '11 Eagle Rare 17yo more than the '10, and I've heard good things about the '12. I hope I can find the most recent release on sale in the $60 range, because while I liked last year's, it's just not the same value as the cask strength stuff.
Richnimrod says: The current ('12) Weller isn't quite as nice as the last couple; but it's so close that I find little to complain about. As for the others; I haven't been able to lay hands on a bottle of the Stagg here in MI where it's as rare as Pappy 23. My fav for both the Stagg and WLW is '10, though I've heard the '09 WLW was really something.
I thought the Sazerac 18 and Eagle 17 were nice, but Stagg, Weller, and Handy have been a bit lacking for me personally.
However, this is happening across the board because booze is now big business.
Imagine you're an artisan baker and you're used to making each loaf one at a time. Then, suddenly, you get an order for 500 loaves and you try to expand your business model. There's just no way that the quality of those 500 loaves will be as good as the ones you once made in single batches.
Imagine neatly printing your name on a piece of caligraphy paper, taking your time to make sure each letter is flawless. Then imagine having to do it 50 times in a minute.
There are countless examples of this. I've noticed declining quality in many, many traditionally dependable spirits across the board because of the increased volume these companies are doing, the most recent being El Dorado Rum.
Ultimately, it won't be the price increases that do some of these companies in, but rather the decrease in quality. Buffalo Trace will not be one of these examples, however. Even on their worst day the BTAC bottles are better than most other mature options.
Still very impressed with the 2012 Stagg...one of the few bourbons that holds up to the AH Hirsch 16 from years past...also wonder if years of hype don't take their toll as well (?)
I actually like the 2012 Weller an awful lot. So please: keep telling people that it's terrible.
you know, i was wondering the same thing. do you have a list of how many barrels were dumped for each of the releases? maybe buffalo trace has been trying to increase output by throwing in subpar barrels.
I find it amusing that so many are looking for such consistency in a product fully intended to be unique. These small batch whiskeys have no choice but to be special as they have endured 15 or more years of vastly different seasons here in Kentucky during their maturation. Each batch will be somewhat different from the others. We say thank the Lord.....
Each issue of these batches is exciting to us for the same reason we find pleasure in our offspring...they are unique and each special creation can shine with their own characteristics. There is no doubt, however that each came from the same family as the previous generation. Those.. off-note.. characteristics found by some could be that hint of sour mash that reminds me of the wonderful smell and aura hanging in the air on evenings the distillery is dumping the mash... this is heaven to some of us.
I have had multiple bottles of each and every BTAC release thus far and every one of them has made me a proud and happy Kentucky boy. Sorry friends but... Where ya gonna go... for experiences like these? No denying there are great spirits out there in this world.. and many are much more... consistent... perhaps in their drinking experience. I say you can have that... sameness... in a long-aged spirit (that likely gets its depth from the Kentucky Bourbon left in its aging barrel), I much prefer that very dynamic natural spirit of Kentucky distilled in each of these bottles.
The distillers have done a marvelous job over the years in addressing the complaints most of you have. They have achieved consistency of product by producing... mega..batches..., adjusting flavor and character with batches of ...seed whisky... and by ...blending... in some of our consistently satisfying limestone water... This allows each brand to have essentially the same character as those that went before. If you're wanting that ...same experience... each time you pop the cork most definitely go for a mass-produced distiller's product. If there are barrels of ...subpar...juice, I guarantee they won't end up as part of the BTAC ... or a Pappy, a Blantons ... or any vintaged, small batch or single barrel product from the distillery. Any such barrel would find use in a mass produced product, be sold to a customer for other use or if it truly was ...subpar... it would be dumped!
I would suggest that you may support the development of the Southern California Whisky industry! That same weather that has you waking up to a ...beautiful sunshiny day... nearly all year long will provide a very consistent product after aging, say 40 years (better find another aging medium however because oak barrels would be a no-go).
When Kentucky does get that master distiller that produces fine, aged barrels and batches of whisky like the biological cell..splitting phenomena that would produce millions of identical living beings, we will know his name! Do you?
.....The Proof is in My Whisky
But to me, the overall trending decline theory makes no sense to me because...
All of the whiskeys in the BTAC were NOT produced yesterday, right? So as the demand for whiskey has skyrocketed of recent, that should have no effect on this collection. The GTS, ER, Sazerac 18 were all distilled and barreled in the mid to early 1990's (give or take a few years). Since the aging time for the GTS, ER, WLW and Handy are differnt for every release, some of the bourbon could have been produced during the same year or even before previous editions. From the press reports that come out each year, cases released or each have not gotten much larger, relatively speaking?
So the only way I could feasible see the BTAC getting weaker in quality is because whoever is picking/pulling the selected barrels is losing their touch? Other than that, I have no explaination.
I could understand maybe 1 or 2 out of the 5 every year to be varied/differnt/changed slightly, but for all 5 to be less amazing, I am not too sure how that is possible based on all of the info that BT provides for these releases.
Josh
"But to me, the overall trending decline theory makes no sense to me because..."
It makes sense if Buffalo Trace is increasing the amount of whiskey they're releasing to supply a greater demand. All of the El Dorado Rums were made 12 to 15 years ago, but now they're beginning to use barrels they normally wouldn't (or shouldn't).
When your demand is low you can afford to be picky. When demand is up you say: "what the heck? It'll sell regardless."
...if they're not using extra barrels, it could be that they've previously used some of their older stock to blend in other projects, leaving them with fewer options. There are many possible explanations. If it is indeed true, which it may not be!
It could be the cooperage sucked that year, it could have been the corn or the still or something else. Lot's of reasons.
Can it be confirmed through BT press releases for the BTAC from the past say 3-4 years if they are putting out more product for this release. I don't have access to all of them unfortunately. But your point is valid if infact they are pulling more barrels consistently for each release year after year.
Josh
Josh - I don't know, but I'll try and find out (sensitive subject, I'm sure). I don't know of many distilleries where this isn't the case however. Most of these guys are complaining about trying to satisfy the demand.
Very true, their could be numerous possibilities and motives. I personally believe that considering that WLW, GTS, and Handy are all uncut/unfiltered and different proofs every release that they will vary slightly every year regardless. I don't think there is true "control" to compare them to. I feel that BT does a good job getting them to thier specifications and the quality has not gone down at all, just subtle differences. I understand the whole cooperage factor, but between the 5 in the collection, they were all produced in different years. BUT I think another factor is some bloggers (NOT Sku) have the ability to convince whiskey drinkers that a pear is really a peach and speard that word as truth, LOL...
Josh
The number of barrels for Stagg has certainly gone up through the years, from 80-90 barrels through 2008 to closer to 120 for the last couple years. Though the 2010 Stagg, which was great, was the largest release with 142 barrels.
Of course, there are a million variables which can impact a whiskey. If you've ever tasted sister casks that have been stored together for the same amount of time, you can often pick up differences, sometimes quite noticeable ones. The fact sheets show that not all Staggs are of the same age or stored in the same warehouses, and then there is the weather variance from year to year.
Keep in mind, I'm not accusing BT of any wrong doing here. They make great whiskey at great prices. I'm just pointing out what I see, in side by side tastings, as a decline in greatness, particularly since 2011, where the whiskey is less multi-dimensional than it used to be.
Nor am I saying they should all taste the same, but there is better and there is not quite as good.
Of course, it should go without saying that this is just my opinion, and anyone is free to taste these whiskeys and disagree with me.
I hear you sku. I wasn't trying to knock your post whatsoever, just trying to put out a different perspective as to why I DO NOT think the BTAC is declining.
I use this site and the David D's (K&L) blog quite frequently as great insite on the whiskey industry. Keep up the great work!
Josh
sku, are you basing this on a blind head to head comparison?
Anon, no. It's what I've noticed over the years. I did the Stagg 2010, 2011, 2012 head to head, but not blind.
It would be interesting to read your opinion after a blind head to head. Sometimes we fall into these narratives of decline and then confirm them for ourselves. On the other hand, if you come to the same conclusions after a blind tasting it would be more convincing for the sceptics.
I'm not out there to convince any skeptics. I'm just giving my opinion. Blind tastings are great, and I do them a lot, but tasting without blinders doesn't negate the result. Moreover, it's not as if there was a narrative out there that BTAC had declined. It's something I noticed on my own. As the comments show, many people think it's just as good as it's always been and that's fine, but I've noticed a difference.
Fair enough. I have gathered a sense of a narrative of decline for both BTAC and Pappy from a bunch of people, online and off. The usual "it's not as good now that it's more popular" kind of thing (David D's comment here is a version of that). For me personally, I think my sense of frustration/exhaustion from chasing these highly allocated bourbons makes me want to like them less.
I'd simply like to find a bottle in order to try one of them!
I had been told a few years ago by a retailer that the BTAC bottlings were in fact distilled a while ago, aged for however many years there were supposed to be aged for then kept in inert containers before bottling. Sot of like what was done with the Pappy stuff before it became BT juice.
Is this true?
Asking because this could be the reason why one year after the other quality could seem to go downward (note: i only have experienced 2008 and 2011 so i do not have an opinion on this specific matter).
NP, that is true of the Sazerac 18. Since about 2004 that has all been from a single batch distilled in 1985 kept in steel tanks since then. I don't believe it's true of any of the other whiskeys in the series.
I don't have a ton of history with BTAC, but I tried a flight of them at a bar a year ago which convinced me to try to seek them out this year. I was able to get my hands on the Sazerac, Stagg, and Handy, and I tried a Weller 2012 in a bar for my bday. I haven't tried the Eagle Rare 17 this year. The only one that I felt lived up to the hype for me this year was the Handy. I won't say I'm an expert, but that was the only one I felt was truly worth the time in seeking it out and that I would look for next year.
The weird thing for me was that the reviews of the samples seemed quite positive. It is only now that I feel like I'm hearing negative feedback on them, and I honestly felt like I was a little crazy for not liking the Stagg very much...
@ loudtalknliquor (Larry) - For me the Stagg takes sometime. For instance, I am currently working on a 2009 GTS and for the first 2 pours is was SUPER HOT and a mess (IMO). But after being opened for about 6 months and 2/3 of the bourbon still remains, it has become the best bourbon I have ever tasted! With the air time, the flavors have evolved amzaingly, like dessert in a glass! I usually add 1 ice cube after taking the first sip neat. That's all it needs for me now. So with these barrel proofers, I believe it all depends how long they have been opened and if it is the first pour out of a new bottle.
Great to know that it can improve. I'll keep trying it of course. I just don't look forward to it as much as I expected. I've only tried it twice so far.
A few years ago I started putting all the BTAC info sheet data into a spreadsheet to try and track some of this stuff myself.
For those that are on SB, you can check it out here:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?15400
I need to update for 2012.
A few observations:
As Sku mentioned, you can see a slow uptick in the number of Stagg barrels. Stagg used to mostly pull from the I and K warehouse, but after 2010 started getting pulled from many more. Pre-2010 it mostly was pulled from the lower floors, and is now pulled from multiple floors. Based on the info sheets, things seemed to really change in 2010.
Handy basically doubled production in 09.
Eagle is all over the place. Only 24 barrels in 2011.
Sazerac is constant as we know.
WLW has had a very slow uptick in production.
Thanks fussychicken! Your digest of the fact sheets is a great tool for doing these kind of comparisons.
My favorite post on here. Yes spread the word please how all this brands are slowly declining so I can find them
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