It's Pappy time! That crazy time every fall when the Pappy Van Winkle's get released. Pappy Van Winkle, of course, is one of the most prized regular releases for bourbon lovers. The Van Winkle family, of the late Stitzel-Weller distillery, are known to have a diminishing number of barrels of that prized Stitzel-Weller bourbon. Along with those barrels, they also bottle whiskey made at Buffalo Trace (and their rye comes from a variety of sources).
Of late, there has been much controversy about which bottles of Pappy are Stitzel-Weller and which are Buffalo Trace. There doesn't seem to be much doubt that the 20 and 23 year old Pappys are still made from Stitzel-Weller bourbon, but there has been a lot of back and forth about the 15.
Pappy 15 is the most affordable and some think the best of the Pappy line (which also makes it the hardest to get). Based on statements made by the Van Winkles a few years ago, it sounds as if they made a big (and possibly final) run of Pappy 15 bottles from Stitzel Weller in 2009 that held them through the spring 2011 release. This fall, according to this K&L interview with Preston Van Winkle, the Pappy 15 is bourbon made at Buffalo Trace.
But suppose you happen to find a bottle of Pappy on a dusty shelf somewhere. How will you know whether it is the old Stitzel Weller or the new Buffalo Trace version? The answer is in the bottle code. If you have ever visited Tim Puett's Ardbeg Project site, you know about bottle codes. They are codes placed on each bottle that show the time and date of the bottling and they can help you distinguish between different releases of the same whiskey. Tim has demonstrated huge differences in, for instance, the Ardbeg 10 over the years, but you can't tell when the whiskey is from without knowing the bottle code.
Buffalo Trace uses a similar code which can tell you the year your Van Winkle (or your Stagg, Weller, etc.) was bottled. The code is a very small digital stamp that appears on the bottle, usually below the back label. Here's how to read it using two examples:
Example 1: K0780907:21
Example 2: N3001114:13
The first letter is the bottling line at Buffalo Trace; example 1 was the K line, and example 2 was the N line. I don't know enough about the bottling there to know if there is any real significance that can be gleaned from the bottling line.
The second three digits indicate the day of the year that it was bottled. So example 1 was bottled on the 78th day of the year and example 2 was bottled on the 300th day of the year.
The third two digits indicate the year - this is really the most significant piece of information. The "09" on example 1 indicates it was bottled in 2009, so if it's Pappy 15, it would likely be from the old Stitzel-Weller stocks. Example 2 has an "11" which indicates 2011 when they started using Buffalo Trace bourbon.
The final four digits are the bottling time on a 24 hour clock, so example 1 was bottled at 7:21 am and example 2 was bottled at 2:13 pm (14:13).
If you love your Pappy and your BTAC and especially if you go dusty hunting for older versions, it pays to know your bottle codes.
UPDATE (March 2012)
For the Spring 2012 release, it appears that the order of numbers has switched. In the comments below, a reader gave this example of a bottle code: b1204011:11k.
I would interpret it this way.
I'm not sure wht the letters are. The first letter used to represent the bottling line, but on these new numbers, there appears to be a letter at the beginning and the end, but I can make sense of the numbers. The first two digits are the year, so "12" means bottled in 2012. The second three digits are the day of the year, so "025" means the whiskey was bottled on the 25th day of the year, which would be January 25th. This would be consistent for the spring 2012 release. The last four digits are the time of bottling, in this case, 11:11.
Monday, November 21, 2011
Pappy Van Winkle: Know Your Bottle Codes
Labels:
Bourbon,
Buffalo Trace,
Drinks,
Van Winkle,
Whiskey
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35 comments:
Thanks for the great info. Looks like the two bottles I bought in the spring were bottled in 2009. Hopefully I'll be able to get a 15 this fall to compare.
In Lexington, Kentucky, at least, the Van Winkle line is not so much a brand as it is an aspiration. Near as I can tell, bottles here never made it to store shelves this fall, not even the entry level 10 year old. Since 10 year old bourbon cannot be terribly scarce, the apparent Van Winkle business plan to severely restrict availability seems a bit counterproductive. How will the firm win new customers if folks can only rarely get the product? A better plan, I suspect, would be to keep the 10 year old Van Winkle in common circulation and reserve the older bourbons for strict allocation. Of course, it's their company not mine. They have spent several decades successfully building up the brand, so they obviously know something about marketing (and bourbon).
Tom Troland
Steve - good post. There's been discussion of this very thing; e.g. SW or not SW. To me, if it's good, who cares but I understand some do. I have PVW15 from 2006 in my bunker but for the life of me can't find the bottling code. It might be under the label. As for finding a "dusty" PVW15.....when monkeys fly.
Greg, did you look hard. As you may know, the code can sometimes be very hard to see (it's very small black lettering). You should try holding it up to a light at an angle and rotating.
I suppose it could also be covered by the label, I'm not sure what goes on first, code or label.
And lastly, I know that recent vintage codes are generally under the back label, but maybe earlier ones are in other areas.
This is great info, Sku! Who filled you in?
I just checked mine and it's from 08...SW juice for sure. Great info Sku!
I just got a bottle of 15 and 20 year old today from the fall 2011 allocation. Both were bottled about 3 weeks apart from eachother this year.
With all this talk of S/W vs. BT juice, I'm sure that the 15 is new BT spirit... but how sure can I be that they haven't used BT 1991 juice in the Fall 2011 release? I got it because I was sure it was still S/W :)
Sorry for the over-post, I meant to ask how reasonably sure we can all be that the 20 year old from the fall '11 release isn't BT juice. Thanks! :)
I'd say you can be pretty sure. Preston Van Winkle says in the interview I link above (at around 14:00) that the 20 and 23 are still from stocks that were made at Stitzel-Weller.
Thanks for this post. It's fun for us bourbon dorks (to use Greg's blog name haha). I just got up to Boston where my Dad proudly announced that he'd scored an "old" bottle of 15. This I highly doubted and in the spirit my pops and I have of loving to challenge each other's bold claims, I hit your blog to help prove him wrong. I found the digital stamp (located just under the bottom right corner of the back label - needed to tilt the bottle and hit it with a flashlight to make it out) and found that his bottle was bottled this year in October (298th day). The odd thing was that it was bottled at 8:28pm. I guess during Pappy season they burn the midnight oil at BT.
Thanks for aiding me in victory. Next up I will just have to shame the old man into letting me crack the bottle and have at it!
I finally opened up the fall 2011 release today... am I alone in being very unimpressed with this? It's rather one-dimensional and lacks something in the mid-palate. It tastes like an above average cognac.
I am hoping the 20 is a whole lot better! I may just put it on ebay since I only paid $90 for it though :)
The 2011 Saz. 18 I opened today as well was SOOO much a sexier dram!
Anon, if you'd tasted the 2011 Pappy 15 in a blind vertical with Pappy 15 from 2007-2010 releases; then yes, you are alone. And as your glowing praise for Saz 18 indicates your taste buds prefer spicier rye whiskies to silkier wheated bourbons, you could have saved a bundle discovering your preference for rye-based flavors by trying entry-level whiskies before purchasing two of the finest and rarest on Earth.
Pardon me, I meant 2007-2011 releases.
Sorry, Anonymous, but I find the Jefferson Presidential 17 to be much more flavorful than the 15 PVW, and the label actually tells you it's S/W juice.
The 20 is far better than the 15 as well. IMHO. My palate is far from inexperienced.
For true "rarity" go find a 70s Brora or an old Springbank 21. Those, my friend are sexy whiskies.
Hey now folks, let's be civil and respect each other's opinions. There is no right answer when it comes to which is the better whiskey.
Agreed Sku. My apologies.
I just bought 2 bottles of PPW 15 and on inspection of the bottle codes realized I have one 2009 and one 2011. I am very excited to have an older one, but I am not yet convinced that the 2009 is truly Stitzel-Weller product. The math just doesn't work out for me.
Here's my blog post anyways:
http://bkarmstrong.blogspot.com/2011/11/pappy-van-winkle-bourbon.html
I just picked up 2 PVW 23 and was surpised to find that - according to the code information above - they are years 06 and 08 respectively. I am confused as to these older dates as this is my local shop and these just arrived in the shop within the last week. It seemed unusual that they would receive these older bottling from their distributer.. rather than the 2011 versions. Is this unusual in your experience?
I found a bottle at a small store in Bastrop Texas on Feb. 2nd. 2012. Had to dust the bottle off but I cannot find a on the entire bottle. At least not one that resembles the codes you have listed.
Anon, they can be very, very hard to see since they are small black lettering. If you haven't alreaady done this, try holding the bottle upside down and using a flashlight.
I have a couple of the old bottles and can find no such code on them. These were from a hand picked barrel that the vendor bought and had bottled. Great Bourbon.
The bottle of 15yr that i just bought has this bottle code b1204011:11k the third two digit is 40 I'm not sure what to make of it
Anon, I've heard this from a few people. I don't have any confirmation on this, but it looks like they have changed the code. Here is how I would decipher it:
b: Bottle line b
12: 2012
040: 40th day of the year - Feb. 9
11:11 Bottled at 11:11 a.m.
This would be consistent with being from the spring release from this year.
Talk about lightning striking - I went into my local liquor store tonight to get a bottle of Elijah Craig and what do see on the bourbon shelf (at eye level, no less) than ONE beautiful bottle of Pappy 15!! (I triple-checked, there was only the one)...I live in a rural "control" state that gets NO good bourbon, or much of anything else for that matter, and this store is literally the only one within an hour's drive. They also normally have a very limited bourbon selection. Needless to say, I almost s*** my pants!!
-According to your info on the new bottling codes, SKU, mine was bottled on August 28, 2012 at 8:04 p.m., therefore it's BT juice, but hey, given where I live it's about a once-in-every-five+-years find and definitely has made my Saturday night!
Very interesting article. I just snagged a bottle of 23, which arrived at my local store yesterday. Unfortunately the codes don't match what you have here....unless the 2 and 1 are transposed? The 308th day would make sense though. Here it is: K2130811:28
kik36, that would have been an older bottling.
K bottle line
213th day
2008
11:28 bottling time.
Ahh!--kik36, you very fortunate person! A 2008 bottling of the 23 y.o. is a Stitzel-Weller for sure, unless you're made of $$$ you should save it for your special occasion(s)!
Hi, sku -this is edo in Japan. I just bought (ordered Dec. 21, 2012) a bottle of PVW 15 y.o. from Kawachiya online. One per customer and they couldn't have had it up much more than a day. It's in a 70 cl bottle and the number on the back label is:
06.6071 (that's it- no letters or anything else.)Now, oddly, on the front label, very bottom left is the number:
04.6071 Only the second digit is different. Got any ideas about that?
... and I was able to get two bottles of Lot B. Again, 70 cl.(export?) size. There is no back label except a Japanese sticker, but on both bottles the front label bottom right has this number: 04.6081.01
Any ideas?
Sorry Edo, I have no clue what that would be. Did you look closely for other codes? Usually the code is in a small black computer printed numbers below the back label. It can be very difficult to see when the bottle is full. I'm wondering if the code you found is an additional code used for exports.
Of course, given that they have to use a completely different bottling size, it's possible that there is a different code for export bottlings.
I have a bottle I picked up somewhere between 2002 and 2006. I cannot locate the bottling code for the life of me (I even tried the flashlight trick) but it has the same label codes that Edo mentioned. How big is the bottling code?
Thanks!
Chris
Also, I purchased the bottle I the Midwest and the glass has a neat logo with an S inside a rectangle with 2 "L"s inside the curves of the S, not sure if this is significant or not.
Thanks again!
Chris
The bottle code is usually somewhere under the back label. It is quite small, maybe 8 point or so and in black type which makes it very hard to see in a full bottle. I'm not sure when they started using it, so if it's an early bottling, it's possible it was before they were using it.
Just picked up a bottle of PVW 23 with the code K2110810:16. Time to store it away for a rainy day. Thanks for article, it was a great help.
Hey Edo, don't read the code on the label, mine says 06.6104, you need to look for black numbers on the glass bottle, they are hard to see unless you are looking for them.
Cheers
SKU,
Did the 20, and 23 start coming from BT the same time as the 15? I have a 2011 20 year PVW. The code is similar to the first example you gave.
Thanks,
Josh
Josh, no. Understandably, they ran out of the 15 first. Sometime last year, the 20 year old became a blend of Stitzel-Weller and BT (and probably Bernheim too). The 23 is still all Stitzel-Weller but all of it is bottled and they will keep releasing it. When those bottles dry up, they will move to a mixture as well, but no one knows when that will be.
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